trans problems with gryphon

[fisherman]

This is fisherman's wife. What does a new transmission cost? Hopefully not the marriage!!! lol Seriously though will a new transmission really affect selling the truck in the future? And are we talking hunderds here, or thousands....Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg

[Jackpine]

Since I've never replaced a transmission, I don't know what the cost is to rebuild or replace. A CarFax report would point up a transmission replacement/rebuild, so, that might effect resale price. If it's not done properly, the thing fails again, usually quite quickly.

There ARE replacements that are more durable than the stock transmission, if you have to go this route.

- Jack

[soutthpaw]

Originally Posted by fisherman

This is fisherman's wife. What does a new transmission cost? Hopefully not the marriage!!! lol Seriously though will a new transmission really affect selling the truck in the future? And are we talking hunderds here, or thousands....Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg

I would be surprised if you can get it rebuilt or replaced for under $2500 if you are having someone do the work... I have no idea what a rebuild costs on that truck... as for resale a good upgraded transmission WILL definitely add to the resale value.. go over to http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum24/ or go to F150online and ask about transmission recommendations.... you can also probably find a good mechanic on the forums in your area that is willing to do side jobs and save you some cash...
I am guessing the Fisherman is not that mechanically inclined but if you remove the transmission yourself and take it in for a rebuild that can save you lots of cash too...

[Power Hungry]

Just for reference...

Calibration development was done on 2004, 2005 and 2006 F150 trucks. On all of them, we would push them well past what I would consider "normal" modifications and all of them resulted in zero failures.

I personally drove the 2006 for almost a year. Modifications included 35" tires on a 5" lift, a "snorkel" mod, and a NX Nitrous kit set at 150 HP shot. (Yeah, it was freakin' AWESOME when it hit!!)

Testing maximum limits were as follows:

Rev Limiter - 6000 RPM
Speed Limiter - 150 MPH
Timing - +5 Deg. (Running appropriate octane fuel for calibration)
1-2 WOT - 5300 RPM
2-3 WOT - 5300 RPM
3-4 WOT - 4800 RPM
1-2 Firm - +25%
2-3 Firm - +25%
3-4 Firm - +25%

I drove with the shift firmness set at +25 nearly all the time (including when running the nitrous) and hadn't had any issues. Of course, this is only one vehicle and others may not respond identically.

The fact is that mechanical failures happen for a variety of reason, even on unmodified vehicles. If there are any components in a vehicle that are marginal, then performance products or any other modifications that increase strain (lift kits, big tires, etc) can push those marginal components to the point of failure. Unfortunately, there is simply now way to account for those types of failures. In most cases, this tends to be the transmission, although the number of transmission failure I've seen over the last 5 years have been extremely low... less than 10 (maybe less than 5) that I'm aware of.


Fisherman,

While I doubt that the problem with your trans is specifically related to unusually high RPM settings or aggressive shift firmness, I think those settings may have contributed to the failure of marginal components that would have failed of their own accord at some point.

I hope this makes sense...

Take care.

[fisherman]

OK, so I brought my truck into the dealership (because my dad has been a machanic there for over 35 years). They tore into the transmission and found that the converter had basically exploded, sending filings and other debris throughout, causing major damage to everything else. In other words the transmission is almost 100% destroyed (besides the casing).

Now, since my truck is just past its waranty of 60K, and because my dad has been of excellent service for over 35 years, him and the head honchoes are trying to convince ford motor company to file this as a "Good Will" waranty claim. Which basically means that they feel bad because my truck is just past the waranty period, so they (ford) will cover half of the damage.

If this convincing turns out for the better, my bill will turn out to be around $1500 CND. So I'm crossing my fingers that they give in, cause I'm not really looking forward to spending at least 3K!

So, now that I learned the hard way...... What should I set my shifting and stuff to when I get the truck back??

My wife wants me to no longer use the gryphon, but I refuse to let an $800 part collect dust because of a stupid mistake. Also I dont even have my custom tunes yet!

[fisherman]

So according to Bills info, I should be able to safely run the WOT shifts at 5300?? And shift firmness at 25? WOW, the shifting at 14 felt pretty harsh. The change in my ashtray would rattle when it shifted!

Anyways, I'll probably leave those parameters alone for a while cause I'll be terified of destroying the transmission again!!

[88Racing]

Hey fisherman!
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

A tc is just like any other mechanical component. 2 weeks ago we had a 06 gmc denali blow up a brand new one with 600 miles on it. A month before that one of our f250 spit one out with 5K on a rebuild. Different shops did the work. Different drivers in each vehicle. No tuners or tunes in either of them.
I am still wondering about the quality of parts that goes into these vehicles and weather or not you just happened to be lucky and get one that only lasted 60K.

Good luck on the "good will" warranty.

Lars

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by fisherman

So according to Bills info, I should be able to safely run the WOT shifts at 5300?? And shift firmness at 25? WOW, the shifting at 14 felt pretty harsh. The change in my ashtray would rattle when it shifted!

Anyways, I'll probably leave those parameters alone for a while cause I'll be terified of destroying the transmission again!!

Fisherman, I'm going to try to explain this very carefully, so please pay attention!

You bought a pickup truck, not a funny car. Don't drive it like a funny car unless you make some major mods!

When Bill put nitrous in the truck he was testing, he moved the HP and torque peak outputs to the right in the graphs. And, we really don't know how often he ran the thing at WOT, do we?

In your truck, the torque and HP are falling off at 5000 RPM. There's no benefit whatsoever to setting a shift point higher than that (unless you just like to hear the engine scream and the transmission self-destruct). The Torque Converter starts to balloon (distort) at 5400 RPM. Give you any clue why your TC got toasted?

To get the transmission to shift properly at WOT, the max RPM needs to be at least 400 above any of the WOT shift points. From personal experience, it needs to be even higher for the 3-4 upshift. However, notice that Bill had the 3-4 upshift on his truck set 500 below the other shifts. Bill has mentioned that this shift is somewhat harder on the drivetrain than the others, so it's best to keep it at a lower point.

Here are my numbers, for my tow tune, just to give you a reference point:

1-2 Upshift: 4975
2-3 Upshift: 4975
3-4 Upshift: 4400
Max RPM: 5400

The tow tune is designed to keep the engine in the power band as long as possible during WOT acceleration.

Bluejay, in the f150Online forum, set his shift firmness at about +12, +12, +9 when he had the "canned" tunes - he likes "very firm" shifts. But remember, the canned tunes have already "firmed up" the shifts some! Don't get carried away here! Once Bluejay got his custom tunes, he left the firmness settings at 0, which is where I have them. On a WOT shift, it's quick enough to cause my serpentine belt to "squeak". I don't really want it any harsher than that. A strong "jolt" is putting stress on things. No "feel" at all, is wearing out the bands, due to prolonged slippage. Cleatus12r talked about this in his post, and I'd pay attention to what he said. He knows what he's talking about.

OK, I've probably lectured you enough. The programmer did not destroy your transmission. You should not hesitate to use it again - just use it sensibly!

- Jack

[fisherman]

Jack, thank you for informatal reply! I did feel that the power really fell after about 5000 RPM, but I just loved the way it sounded beyond that! It sounds like a turbo.

So when I do get my custom tunes, which are custom-tow(87), Performance(87), and Performance(91), the shift points and firmness are already adjusted to obtain good performance and firmer yet still safe shifts ?

I thought that it was just air/fuel, and timing adjustments, then you take care of the rest to your liking.

Also, I'm just curious as to why the gryphon lets you set the parameters to these extreme levels, when its just not practical, and/or safe??