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The Conversation Pit This is where EVERYTHING else goes. No subject is too mundane. How's the weather in your area? Did your kid cut his first tooth? Really, what do you think about the President? And don't get me started on Cummins and Duramaxes. Have at it! |
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A Political Statement
This is a reply to Lynn in the New Member Forum -
Lynn, I too am passionate about politics, probably more so than ever due to the last eight years. Please understand, I am a 20-year, Vietnam Era, Air Force combat pilot veteran, so I have some inkling of your feelings and sense of Duty, Honor and Country. My Father was a career Army officer, who fought in WWII, Korea and the early days of Vietnam. I am all too aware of the fact that we in the military are used when the political process breaks down, usually through inept or overly ambitious government. I don't really agree that Bush was pro-military at all. Look at the way the Administration treated the returning wounded veterans. Look at the way they sent troops into harm's way with substandard equipment. Notice how they subverted the role of the military (who are trained to "break things") into a nation-building role more suited to a police force and NGOs. Look at how they overtly approved "extraordinary measures" and then hung the poor grunts who implemented those measures out to dry for using "excessive force" while completely ignoring worse behavior by civilian contractors and intelligence agencies. Look at how personnel are on third and fourth deployments, and how those deployments have been extended. Remember how the Administration effectively cut off support to the effort in Afghanistan so that it could pursue a more "profitable" adventure in Iraq. I could go on and on, but, hopefully, I've conveyed the idea. And please, I'm not some "bleeding heart" Democrat. I have much the same angst against President Johnson for the inept way he first got us into, and then tried to micro-manage the Vietnam War effort. Johnson "invented" a reason to escalate activities in Southeast Asia, it was an event in the Gulf of Tonken that didn't even happen. He allowed his Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, to ignore virtually every request made by his military commanders. He forced the Air Force to conduct bombing raids on low-value targets at predictable times of the day using routes that were well known to the enemy. And finally, look at how his Administration failed to support returning veterans. I don't mean to say that these two Presidents were all bad. President Bush made huge, successful efforts toward combating disease in Africa. President Johnson created the "Great Society" that probably resulted in the election of President Obama. But, in my opinion, Bush was not a leader. In my opinion, Johnson was not a leader. We desperately need a LEADER, and that leader WILL have to make very tough decisions. That leader must be willing to acknowledge mistakes, because he will make them. That leader must recognize that he doesn't have all the answers so he must listen to his advisers and understand the full consequences of his decisions. He must keep to the moral high ground and not let the ends justify the means. That leader must govern from the center of the Country, not from the center of his political party. That leader must work with the other countries in the world and not try to dominate them. I am optimistic about President Obama. I think President Obama would have listened to Colin Powell. I think he would not have allowed a Donald Rumsfeld to ignore the advice of General Tommy Franks. I don't think he would have abandoned the effort in Afghanistan for something more (politically) lucrative. And, I think he WILL support the military. - Jack
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2024 F150 Platinum SCrew 3.5L PowerBoost FX4, Peragon Tonneau Cover, LineX Bed, 35% Window Tint on All Sides and Rear, Full Nose Paint Protection Film, Husky Mud Guards, Lasfit Floor Liners, VIOFO Dash Cam |
#2
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Great job Jack.
Lars
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SENIOR MODERATOR--PTLA God doesn't have a Facebook but he's my friend. God doesn't have a twitter, but I follow him. |
#3
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Quote:
I am proof. Look how they offer the RIRP while overseas but when you hurt and sent back to the states, you are no longer eligable for it.
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Chuck 1992 Calypso Green Mustang notch 1995 Mustang GT 2004 Explorer Limited A veteran is someone who, at one point in one's life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author Unknown |
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Jack
I think that while intentionally trying to be unbiased in my reply, I have unintentionally shown my true feelings towards the two party system that is ruining this country. I have no doubts that Bush was inept in many things regarding this war. I also have no doubt that for all his faults he also did great things that he will never be recognized for. The media in this country has created a stigma around the Bush admin. and has made him a scapegoat for many things. At the same time, as gun shy as I am on the Obama admin, like you, I only wish him wisdom and grace to do well by his supporters and this country. I can only hope for his unwaivering support in the military. Don't get me wrong Jack, I know you feel the same about this country and I appreciate your service. I will always have the upmost respect for our retirees and vets. I too have had many family members in active duty service. Look, everybody supports their party for issues that affect them and I support mine because of the way they affect my life and my family. I was raised very conservative and that mindset has brought me values that I could never live without. The corruption in our political system has this country at a breaking point, something must give. This country will either fail or succeed together. Everbody is on the same team. I support all levels of the party that I honestly believe can bring this country back to greatness and I don't think it will be Obama.
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2004 Screw 4x4 Lariet |
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The enduring great thing in this Country, Lynn, is that we are free to voice our thoughts. I respect your opinion and am willing to accept that there are no pat answers. You and I and your Wife and countless others have sworn to protect and defend this freedom. It is NOT "unpatriotic" to disagree, in fact, I would argue that it is unpatriotic to blindly agree.
I am a registered Republican, who, in 2000, would have happily voted for John McCain. But, I was not given that choice, so I voted for Al Gore. In 2004, I voted for John Kerry, and, last year I voted for President Obama. I also voted for Ronald Reagan, who used to be a Democrat, but stated that his Party had deserted him. I feel much the same about the GOP. Yes, we are on the same team, and, we can disagree. The next four years will be interesting, to say the least, and I look forward to seeing what happens. I remain hopeful. Peace, Brother! - Jack |
#6
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Quote:
I also want to say thanks for a well mannered discussion on our disagreement. That is one reason that I like this forum. Just because we don't see eye to eye on certain things doesn't mean we can't get along and learn from each other passions. To many people are too quick to fly in to a rage over other people's opinions. Take care -Lynn
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2004 Screw 4x4 Lariet |
#7
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I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but for the life of me I dont understand how the American people think that just 1 person can change it all. I also feel that there should be term limits in Congress, that way new fresh different voices will be in. They could be better or worse than the previous but new nonetheless and with limits in place then someone else can take a turn.
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Chuck 1992 Calypso Green Mustang notch 1995 Mustang GT 2004 Explorer Limited A veteran is someone who, at one point in one's life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author Unknown |
#8
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Excellent post
Very thoughtful and well presented post Jack. I agree with you. Nice to see a goo political discussion. Other forums I read or posted just became matches between a dozen or so far right members of the forum and everyone else....
you are right a good leader is what we needed. look at Reagen, he was able to cross party lines and get the most electoral votes 489/525 in his 2 terms of any president in history. I was not old enough then, But I would have voted for him. he did a lot of good for the US and the World. Myself I am an independent but lean to the left on most issues. However there just was no comparison of the leadership abilities between this past election's candidates.. Obama is a Very Charismatic orator and leader. (just like Reagan) He may not solve all the problems but he will definitely improve US relations around the world that Bush destroyed. He is promising better support and care for Veterans too. Also many benefits that the right in this country enjoy are due left sponsored actions and legislation. It seems that many people have the view that you can only have liberal or conservative ideas. It me that people name call "bleeding heart liberal" etc. if you support Obama or voice even a hint of a non-conservative opinion... I Happen to supports issues on both sides of the fence.... Ok i'm gonna get off my and crawl back into :closet:
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DJ Phoenix (my modded) Hi-1200/240Tow/75FS/80DD/100/140SS +Minotaur ASE Master Auto Technician 2001 Ford Excursion 7.3 4x4 Projects. 1970's Hustler and Max II Amphibious ATV's |
#9
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Yeah the pit will work. One thing I don't like about the state of AZ is when you register to vote you have to register to a party. Thus you can only vote for that party in the primary. Even though you may like a person from a different party you can't vote for them. I feel you should be able to vote for whoever you want to vote for. I blew their minds when I said I was an American and that was the only label that would be put on me. They keep saying you have to, you have to. I said they only thing that I have to do is pay taxes and die. I know I can be an #$@ sometimes, but all this labeling is rediculus.
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Chuck 1992 Calypso Green Mustang notch 1995 Mustang GT 2004 Explorer Limited A veteran is someone who, at one point in one's life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'. That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author Unknown |
#10
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Can't you register as "Independent"?? Seems like that would make things easier.
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Bill Cohron - The Mad Doctor Power Hungry Performance - The ORIGINAL in Ford performance tuning... Since 1997! (678) 890-1110 www.gopowerhungry.com - Home of the Hydra Chip, Minotaur Tuning Software, and the new Orion Reflash System for Navistar! Bring back Windows™ XP and 7. Windows™ Vista and Windows™ 8 is a pain in my a$$! Windows™ 10 is only slightly less annoying! Windows™ 11 is garbage! Much to my surprise, I'm actually quite enjoying Linux! |
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