4.6 to 5.4 swap? BILL....HELP!!!

CageFighter_Dan · #1 Fri, December 18th, 2009, 12:29 PM

glad to be of any help

RobbyMartin · #2 Fri, December 18th, 2009, 07:32 PM

I am no mechanic but I am now officially ticked off!

After reading various posts from this and other Ford Truck sites, I now know my mechanic does not have a clue anymore.

He simply bit off more than he could chew and is scambling to make this engine run BUT it won't crank up because of the anti-theft (PATS) device. The fuel system is shut down and the mechanic won't believe anything I have read about this issue.

He installed the '97 engine, harness and ECM that wasn't equipped with PATS into my 2002 truck that still has the original PATS device installed. Correct me if I read things wrong but isn't this a problem? Doesn't the ECM and the PATS have to communicate with each other in order to start? I need help...more like he needs help. I'm ready to tow this truck back home and try to get it right myself.

CageFighter_Dan · #3 Fri, December 18th, 2009, 08:35 PM

With a tuner you should be able turn off/ or bypass the pats system, once that is done the fuel situation should be fine, as well check the 30 amp mega fuse in the engine bay on the drivers side, by the cruise control module, I forget the number of its position but it controls power to the pcm as well

***Power Hungry*** · #4 Fri, December 18th, 2009, 09:14 PM

The PATS system, as far as vehicle disabling goes, is controlled by the PCM. If the PCM is NOT a PATS enabled PCM, it's not the reason it won't start. If you can let me know what the base PCM code (Part number or HEX Code) is, I can tell you if it is a PATS style PCM or not. It is basically a single switch in the calibration that either accepts or ignores the PATS controller.

Let me know what you come up with.

RobbyMartin · #5 Fri, December 18th, 2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

The PATS system, as far as vehicle disabling goes, is controlled by the PCM. If the PCM is NOT a PATS enabled PCM, it's not the reason it won't start. If you can let me know what the base PCM code (Part number or HEX Code) is, I can tell you if it is a PATS style PCM or not. It is basically a single switch in the calibration that either accepts or ignores the PATS controller.

Let me know what you come up with.

Bill and Dan,
Thanks for the advice. Too bad my mechanic won't listen. It's like he has to come up with the answer himself or its meaningless, but I'll have him check all fuses. When the truck wouldn't start and the Anti-Theft light was on he thought it was the 5.4 ECM so he was going to put the original 4.6 ECM back in and then call me. Well he didn't and when I got a hold of him the next day he told me he had come across an ECM from an '01 and an '03. He still hasn't called, which means he is stumped. Where is the HEX key located so I can get it to you? Does it have certain numbers or letters? What would be the best suggestion with the ECM's? Should I use the orig. 4.6 or the 5.4?

I'm going to purchase the Gryphon but wouldn't it be wise to make sure the truck is up and running before I do?

***Power Hungry*** · #6 Sat, December 19th, 2009, 05:03 AM

The PCM connector has a sticker on it that looks like this:

The XLE4 type number is what I need. Being a 97 PCM, it should read FOU1 or something like that. It will ALWAYS be 3 letters followed by 1 number. I can also use the part number (in this case, F81F-12A650-BF) to identify the PCM.

Let me know what you can come up with on that.

In regards to the PATS, if the PCM is NOT a PATS enabled PCM, then it is NOT the reason the truck won't start... despite the blinking THEFT light. As I mentioned, the PCM has final say on THEFT mode. All the blinking light tells you at this point is that the PATS module is unable to communicate with the PCM.

If this guy won't listen to you, maybe he'll listen to one of us. I don't want to tell anyone how to do your job, but there are those of us who have been around this block a few times. There's no shame in getting help and hopefully he won't let his ego get in the way of getting your truck up and running. Dan has already done the swap and I have done so many one-off mods over the last dozen or so years that it's not even funny.

Good luck!

CageFighter_Dan · #7 Sat, December 19th, 2009, 01:22 PM

you should be using your original pcm to begin with , you will also have issues with your transmission otherwise, it makes a not of that in my swap notes, it is easier to reprogram the original pcm then it is to fart around with a replacement one , i am under the same situation with my current swap right now, and with bills tuning expertise it will be purring like a dream, USE ORIGINAL PCM, you will have less head aches, sounds like your mechanic is reaching for straws at the moment, i can pretty much gaurantee if you put in the original pcm, you will have alot less issues in the up and coming stages of this swap and starting and running the vehicle

RobbyMartin · #8 Sat, January 9th, 2010, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CageFighter_Dan

With a tuner you should be able turn off/ or bypass the pats system, once that is done the fuel situation should be fine, as well check the 30 amp mega fuse in the engine bay on the drivers side, by the cruise control module, I forget the number of its position but it controls power to the pcm as well

I purchased the Gryphon and it arrived a few days ago

but I haven't had the chance to open the package yet because I went behind my wife's back and bought it without her knowledge

and she has been around me seemingly every waking moment since.

I have a question.....I still have yet to get my truck back from this mechanic (profanities withheld

) because he just can't seem to get the truck started. He says it'll start if he sprays fuel in the intake but it stalls once the fuel has been burned. I think he's still having a PATS issue but I'm no Ford expert. Does the Gryphon have an option to override the PATS or is that part of a custom tune? I want to override the PATS.

This guy went from installing a '97 5.4 to an '01 5.4 and then after talking the service techs at the Ford dealership, he decided to install an '03 5.4 (which only has 62k miles so I'm happy about that).

CageFighter_Dan · #9 Sun, January 10th, 2010, 12:39 AM

glad to hear he finally went with a 03 , thats exactly what i am running in mine, it is a great engine, even with out it tuned to the pcm, i can't wait to see how it runs with the cutom tunes, i still believe the mechanic you got to do this swap got in way over his abilities if he hasn't been able to get it running right, even with a newer one , with this engine did he end up using the original pcm and harness with it as well or did he try to jimmy rig a different one, from the sounds of it , and this is only a guess the pcm isn't allowing the fuel pump to begin its function hense why it will start with fuel in the tb, but once it burns off it quits, due to it not recieving any more from the tank. There is some sort of communication issue happening between the engine and the pcm, and if the pats system in your truck is still functioning it would cause something like this, but it would also kill the starter so it wouldn't even crank over , thats the part that has me baffled. again it is hard to determine a problem just through a forum as well with out physically being there to eleminate problems on a check list. Good luck though thanks for the update

RobbyMartin · #10 Sun, January 10th, 2010, 01:32 AM

He took the engine, harness and pcm from the same vehicle. He said he even drove the truck it came from before they pulled it out for him to install it in mine. He said he heard from Ford that he had to get the pcm, engine and harness from the same vehicle and was also told that they wouldn't re-flash the original 4.6 computer to be a 5.4 due to lawsuits.

If this isn't a PATS issue then who knows what it could be. He said the fuel pump isn't coming on. I've heard/read different opinions on how the PATS works. Can the Gryphon override the PATS?