4.6 to 5.4 swap? BILL....HELP!!! - Page 4

RobbyMartin · #31 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 10:40 AM

Dan or Bill
Would the original 4.6 wire harness plug right into the older 5.4 engine and components? Are all the connectors/pins the same on the 2002 4.6 as the 1997 5.4?
I made the demand that he use the original harness and pcm and he said that the wire harness is different and wouldn't plug into the engine.

CageFighter_Dan · #32 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM

there is no reason that he can not use the original harness, i believe your original motor utilized a cop ignition , what ever ignition system that went to your original spark plugs , just use that same system and plug them right into the spark plugs the same way, your pcm will fire it just like it was the original , there is just a difference in size of the injectors is all , but that only gets addressed when it comes time for the tuning, bills side of things, there is going to be some lengthening of some of the wires, such as the one that goes to the back of the throttle body , its really not that big of an issue, and a little bit of modding for the bracket system for which ever ignition system you use. but you might get lucky and not have to , non of this stuff is extremely difficult , and all of the vacuum lines will work the same , if he can't make the original wire harness work , then you have more issues then him being able to finish this job efficiently , i am in no way more then a back yard mechanic and this was my very first engine swap , let alone an conversion, and i managed to do this , so if this mechanic has any sort of papers backing him up or experience he should easily be able to tackle this project. read over my notes i listed before about my personal experience on my swap, as well the connection to the inside under the throttle body sensor ( not sure what it is called) but it comes out in the back from under the throttle body, had a different end on it apposed to what was on my original engine, same sensor, same function just different connection, i simply cut and spliced what i had from the original engine , only two wires to deal with, so the new engines sensor would plug into the original harness, you may not run into this problem , but i think you may. again there is no reason to not use the original pcm/ecm or harness to feed info to it. it does require alittle bit of moddification , but what custom conversion project these days doesn't

RobbyMartin · #33 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 01:24 PM

Bill,
According to the link below, the '97 5.4 engine produces 235 HP @ 4250 RPM & 335 ft-lbs torque @ 3000RPM. The 2001 4.6 engine produces slightly less....231 HP @ 4750 RPM & 293 ft-lbs torque @ 3500 RPM. I don't know engines but it seems like the older 5.4 isn't much better than the 2001 4.6. Can the 5.4 be tuned to be closer to the numbers of the 2001 5.4 (260hp @ 4500 RPM/350tq @ 2500 RPM)? I feel like I got screwed with this mechanic/engine swap and feel even more screwed with the engine specs. I am hoping for some piece of mind with the numbers.
Thanks and God Bless

http://www.fordf150.net/specs/engines.php

CageFighter_Dan · #34 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 01:29 PM

i can kind of agree with you in the matter of feeling screwed by your mechanic, i have no idea why he wouldn't have tracked down a 2003 or at least a 2000 -2003 5.4 engine, everything newer used alot more forged steel parts i forget which ones but they did make a huge difference in effetiency, some thing about cranks and cams if i remember correctly, i got my 2003 5.4 for only 970 bucks canadian and it was not hard to find from a repitable engine distributor. not to be the barer of bad news but i think this mechanic bit off much more then he could chew or was remotely ready to tackle with his personal experience of what was needed for the project and what would benifit the consumer, being you. in the long run

***Power Hungry*** · #35 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Like Dan said, everything should line up pretty well with the original 4.6L harness. Once we know what calibration we're dealing with, we'll be able to better advise on just what tuning changes will be necessary.

Good luck.

CageFighter_Dan · #36 Sun, December 20th, 2009, 11:31 PM

i think bill is becoming a little dislexic with the late hours of work lol

pretty sure he ment original 4.6, not 6.4 lol

just had to throw that out there lol

RobbyMartin · #37 Mon, December 21st, 2009, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Like Dan said, everything should line up pretty well with the original 6.4L harness. Once we know what calibration we're dealing with, we'll be able to better advise on just what tuning changes will be necessary.

Good luck.

Bill,
The original 4.6 harness is back in the truck along with the PCM, which has the code: GKW3 and part #: 2L3A-12A650-GD

There were literally 3 other PCM's that he tried to get to work and I have their numbers too.

I don't know if you looked at the link with specs of the engines from years '97-'01, but this mechanic seems to think that the differences in HP/TQ on the stock engines from those years are solely from tuning and nothing else. Is there any truth to that? He tried to promise me that all these engines produced the same HP/TQ and the differences come from the factory tune.

***Power Hungry*** · #38 Mon, December 21st, 2009, 03:00 AM

Mechanically, the engines are relatively identical and yes, the tuning has changed over the years to increase power output. However, it's not all that significant.

The PCM code you indicated comes out to a ODAJ0D9.HEX calibration strategy. There is a 5.4L counterpart for that strategy which is ODAJ0E3.HEX (VMF3, Part Number 2L3A-12A650-VD) which is what we'd end up using as the base for the calibration. Not a huge deal, except for the PATS of course. We can either completely disable it or we can leave it intact but you may have to go to the dealer to have the keys reset. If you go with a programmer, we might be able to avoid the whole PATS issue entirely by getting a valid read from your PCM and using the PATS information to build you a set of files that are PATS compatible.

Let me know how it goes.

CageFighter_Dan · #39 Mon, December 21st, 2009, 09:43 AM

sounds like its just up to your mechanic now to get it back to a physical driving and running stage, good luck , let us know how it goes, I'd be curious to know what this mechanic charges you after everything said and done, especially after his many issues of not wanting to listen to your advice through out the build

RobbyMartin · #40 Mon, December 21st, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Mechanically, the engines are relatively identical and yes, the tuning has changed over the years to increase power output. However, it's not all that significant.

The PCM code you indicated comes out to a ODAJ0D9.HEX calibration strategy. There is a 5.4L counterpart for that strategy which is ODAJ0E3.HEX (VMF3, Part Number 2L3A-12A650-VD) which is what we'd end up using as the base for the calibration. Not a huge deal, except for the PATS of course. We can either completely disable it or we can leave it intact but you may have to go to the dealer to have the keys reset. If you go with a programmer, we might be able to avoid the whole PATS issue entirely by getting a valid read from your PCM and using the PATS information to build you a set of files that are PATS compatible.

Let me know how it goes.

So let me understand correctly. If the Gryphon can tune up to 25 hp then the 1997 5.4 with stock hp of 235 can now possibly be 260 hp. And with a 2001 5.4 with stock hp of 260 can now possibly be 285.
Can you tune the 1997 5.4 to be, or close to, the same as a tuned 2001 5.4 @ 285 hp?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is what year engine to start with to get the most Hp and Tq from. It seems like a waste of time to start with the '97 5.4 (235hp) if its not much better than a stock 2002 4.6 (231hp) that I'm trying to replace. Wouldn't starting with a newer year stock motor with 260 hp be better?