What info

[nelstone74]

I have been checking everything out on the site (nice work,very informative) I was wondering what info you need to make a chip. I guess what I am really getting at is on a scale of "canned tune" to "live tune" where does the standard calibration type of tune fall?

[cleatus12r]

The standard response in most forums is that the custom-tuned chip is the way to go...just short of actual live tuning.

I take the stand that most everything out there is good, but you need to start with a good base file. Here is an example:

My brother has a 99.5 Powerstroke. His PCM code is MRT2. An Edge Evolution programmer works ok with it, but it retains the factory shift and torque converter strategy.....which is absolute garbage (and in all honesty, I can't believe that the SD trucks sold as good as they did with that garbage tuning from the factory). The truck ran better, but still shifted like total crap. This is normal, because the Evo simply inputs modified binary into the PCM and retains all of the stock binary that isn't changed in the tuning. When I put it in my PMT1-equipped truck, it shifts great....just like the base PMT1 file should.


I certainly wouldn't be upset if I had an Evolution programmer as my only chioce, but having driven my brother's truck with it....well, it's not for everyone.

Most tuners will use a "good" base file for their custom calibrations. PMT1 happens to be a favorite among 99-01 automatic trucks because it works well. It's surprising because there weren't a lot of trucks manufactured with that PCM code....and it happens to rock.

As far as canned/custom/live tuning is concerned, most custom tuning is prepared from tricks gleaned from live tuning. If there is a big demand for certain operations from a lot of people during live tuning, those parameters will be changed for the custom tunes that are available to everyone. "Canned" tunes usually don't get real in-depth. More fuel, maybe more ICP or timing, maybe slightly higher shift points, and raised TV pressure for increased shift firmness. Nothing is really "personal".

Live tuning? Hmmmm. Make the truck do what you want when you want it to......as long as the software can accomplish it!

On Edit:
Most "canned tunes" (be they from a programmer or chip) for the 7.3L are old as dirt. The aftermarket doesn't really pay too much attention to the 7.3L anymore since it's a dinosaur. What they were running 8 years ago still works so why pay some programmer to go change it? Custom tuners work with these all the time, constantly making a better product because of feedback on what works or what other aftermarket products are installed on the truck.

[nelstone74]

I know from what I have seen (I mostly read the FTE forum) that for my truck ,97 F350 7.3, that a custum chip is the way to go. I am trying to understand how custom a chip would be (without live tuning) for me.

Belive me that if time and funds allowed I would be at the nearest live tune session with a fully loaded trailer hooked up so the truck could be set up just right. But in all reality thats not going to happen any time soon so here I am trying to basically evaluate what you get for the dollars you spend so I can decide if it is worth it.

[cleatus12r]

If you have an automatic transmission, DEFINITELY get custom tuning.

If you have a manual, it's really not THAT necessary.

For daily-driven, near stock rigs, the most that .......most.....of the customers are going to want is improved shifting and better response. ANY off-the shelf programmer, module, or chip will help a manual transmission truck gain response and power.

However, the magic comes with tuning an automatic transmission truck. A programmer or module (or generic chip) will not address shifting strategy or torque converter lockup scheduling. The programmer or chip may delay shifts slightly or make them more firm, but changing the entire strategy just won't happen. And for towing, having the RIGHT strategy is key. You have a 97, so it's possible (if you have an auto) that you already have TDE1, and if so, you MIGHT be happy with a programmer. A module (such as the Edge Juice or other ICP fooler) will do NOTHING for the transmission....and is possibly worse for it. I will get into why if you'd like.

[kokopellimotorsports]

Cody,

You could get into "why" for me and I am sure allot of other people on this forum. I read your stuff on the sniper forum and found it very helpful. As I posted in another thread I want to get my tech section of my website built up, so anything you want to write about would be great for me. Hopefully you will let me use it on my website.

Ty

[nelstone74]

Here is what I have and how I use.
1. 1997 F350 DRW Cab and chasis with flatbed
2. 7.3 psd
3. Automatic trans, bigger cooler installed.
4. 3" down pipe to 3.5" pipe factory muffler
5. DIY intake with 6637 filter
6. trans temp guage in test port of trans, pyro guage in left side manifold
7. I am the second owner it was a fleet vehicle that I got of a lot which was purchased at the auction from what I could tell it was maintained well and not used hard it had a serice body on it when I got it and looked like the hitch had never been used.
8. My oil analysis from Blackstone labs have come back "within range"

This truck is not a daily driver or a race truck it is a work truck. About 75% of the time I pull a bumper pull car trailer, flatbed gooseneck or a livestock gooseneck trailer.

The empty truck weight is approx 7300# and I try to keep the GCVW to under 30,000#. Hauling round bales is usually when I get the 30,000# mark and that load is 10' wide and about 12 high, which grabs a lot of air.

SO what would be best for me

Really I am only considering a chip from three places 1. PHP 2. TW 3. DP

[cleatus12r]

30K lbs. Been there, done that!

First off, if you're hauling all the time, custom tuning is the only way to fly. The factory programming is designed to cater to operators who do everything from haul (like you do) all the way down to those who do nothing but get groceries with the kids twice a week.

From my first hand experience, when I'm towing a lot of weight, I like my shifts late. I like to have the truck shift at a minimum of 2600 RPM regardless of APP (throttle position). This allows the boost to recover more quickly after a shift. As you're well aware, once boost is gone, it takes a long time to get it back on an early PSD truck.

Secondly, if at all possible, it's nice to have the torque converter lock in 2nd gear under light throttle applications at speeds around 25-27 MPH but NOT lock under moderate load until just before the 2-3 shift. This allows you to have a locked torque converter while driving around town in 2nd gear. Heat is a huge issue and with the "loose" (high stall speeds) of the factory torque converter, there is a TON of heat being made. When the TC is locked, the heat creation is mostly gone.

Third gear should ALWAYS be locked when towing. If the 2-3 shift doesn't occur until the engine is at 2600 RPM, then the TC can be locked and not lug the engine too much. Again, this is to keep the heat down.

4th gear....well, depending on the gearing of the truck, 4th gear should be inhibited until 62-65 MPH. The 3-4 gear change is usually the killer of boost and momentum. If the revs can be kept up, the gear change will be less dramatic.

Forced downshifts should occur earlier in every gear to prevent lugging before the downshift. That way there is less strain during the shift. This is accomplished by raising the downshift speed for a given APP.

I hope this helps a little.

[Power Hungry]

Dang Cody, I'm gonna have to put you on the payroll! You've just about covered everything for me.

Nelstone,

Given the nature of your vehicle and the load you're pulling, it's not really necessary to go with "live" tuning although you will definitely benefit from custom tuning. We've seen similar (if not identical) combinations over the last 10 years and can tune those without difficulty. As Cody pointed out, the shifting is going to be the biggest benefit to going with custom programming, especially with 20K+ behind you. Being able to keep the engine in the peak torque curve makes all the difference in the way the vehicle pulls heavier loads.

Where live tuning is really going to com into play is when you stat getting into heavier modifications such as injectors, dual HPOP, big turbos (or twins), water meth, propane, nitrous, or other significant modifications. Standard bolt-on stuff is just not as critical, at least on the diesels.

Hope this helps answer your questions. Of course, you'll probably end up with more!

Take care.

[nelstone74]

Its not a good answer if it doesn't lead to another question!

So this leads me back to my original question if I call and order a towing tune for my application will it be different than the guy down the street who orders a towing tune for his fishing boat.

Cody- I like the idea of eariler downshifts. To be honest that is my biggest complaint with the trans. All around I have been happy with the performance of this trans. I have been able to adjust driving habits to compensate for its downfalls. I would be nice to get more specific performance to my application.

[Jackpine]

I'm going to jump in here.

Bill will customize your tune for the loads you typically pull, and, where you live.

A boat is normally much lighter than what you are pulling and some people live in the mountains. Their requirements are much different than someone living near sea level or pulling heavy loads.

- Jack