Questions about Gryphon vs FU2

[tennfire]

I sent these questions to Bill by email but perhaps he is pretty busy since it seems business is booming. Perhaps other users can answer questions.

I have been reading your site and about your service for about a month now. I think I am ready to move to the next step and order a product - but which one.

I have a 2002 F350 Superduty 4x4 automatic crew cab and long bed - about 180,000 miles.

It has the Napa air filter modification and an enlarged exhaust (4"?) by the prior owner.

I use it as a 2nd vehicle to tow
- a 22 foot boat
- a 16ft trailer with a 5000 lb tractor and attachment
- a 16ft trailer with a 9000 lb Bobcat and attachments
- a 24 foot high school marching band trailer

We are looking at possibly adding bumper pull camper in the 30 foot range.

It gets maybe 7500 miles per year.

My goals - improve fuel economy and performance when not towing and then better performance and economy when towing.

I realize I need gauges to be safe and have looked primarily as Isspro and Dripricol gauge clusters for Pyro, boost (60lb?) and transmission temp. I really am not wild about the gauges on the A-post and may go with a set below the dash. That is one of my areas to address here.

Now, for your products......

I sort of like the Gryphon for size and economy since it has the gauge capacity built in. Don't need diagnostics with it since I have the AutoEnginuity package for several years on my GM products. Two concerns I have here is whether the Gryphon gauges are accurate (e.g., transmission temp depends on factory sensor?) and whether the downloading process is something for those of us who are not technically advanced. Also, what it is the policy of changing the tunes that are available on the Gryphon?

I like the idea of your Phoenix switch on the fly since it would allow changes in programming quicker - although I am not sure how frequently one actually needs to change the settings. I also realize that this system allows more program options to exist than the Gryphon. A downside to the Phoenix from my perspective is cost for a 2nd vehicle since it seems that the system cost would be between $400 and $800 (standard vs FU2) plus another $400 or so for third party gauges. Also, it seems on the FU2 chip that reprogramming requires removal of the chip form the truck whereas DP or TW or one of them allows the reprogramming to be done with a USB from a laptop and the chip in the truck.

Perhaps too many options.

[cleatus12r]

I can't believe I missed this thread.....

Anyhow, I will try to answer these in your existing post.

See answers in RED.

Originally Posted by tennfire

I sent these questions to Bill by email but perhaps he is pretty busy since it seems business is booming. Perhaps other users can answer questions.

I have been reading your site and about your service for about a month now. I think I am ready to move to the next step and order a product - but which one.

I have a 2002 F350 Superduty 4x4 automatic crew cab and long bed - about 180,000 miles.

It has the Napa air filter modification and an enlarged exhaust (4"?) by the prior owner.

I use it as a 2nd vehicle to tow
- a 22 foot boat
- a 16ft trailer with a 5000 lb tractor and attachment
- a 16ft trailer with a 9000 lb Bobcat and attachments
- a 24 foot high school marching band trailer

We are looking at possibly adding bumper pull camper in the 30 foot range.

It gets maybe 7500 miles per year.

My goals - improve fuel economy and performance when not towing and then better performance and economy when towing. Both of these can easily be done with either the Gryphon or Phoenix.

I realize I need gauges to be safe and have looked primarily as Isspro and Dripricol gauge clusters for Pyro, boost (60lb?) and transmission temp. I really am not wild about the gauges on the A-post and may go with a set below the dash. That is one of my areas to address here. A very good point. Some folks just don't dig all of the extra clutter on the a-pillar.

Now, for your products......

I sort of like the Gryphon for size and economy since it has the gauge capacity built in. Don't need diagnostics with it since I have the AutoEnginuity package for several years on my GM products. Two concerns I have here is whether the Gryphon gauges are accurate (e.g., transmission temp depends on factory sensor?) You are right here. The Gryphon gauge accuracy is completely dependent on what the PCM decides to give you for data be it accurate or not.and whether the downloading process is something for those of us who are not technically advanced. It's pretty easy....just follow directions.Also, what it is the policy of changing the tunes that are available on the Gryphon? I don't know this for sure but I'm confident that the tunes are upgradeable through Pegasus when using the Gryphon. Don't quote me on that.

I like the idea of your Phoenix switch on the fly since it would allow changes in programming quicker - although I am not sure how frequently one actually needs to change the settings. I also realize that this system allows more program options to exist than the Gryphon. The switch on the fly is a very nice feature as reprogramming the PCM with the Gryphon takes time and cannot be changed while driving. So if you're towing up a steep incline and the EGT is getting up there, you're stuck in that program until you have a safe place to stop, cool down, and donate 5 minutes to reprogram....just to return it to the prior program down the road a ways.A downside to the Phoenix from my perspective is cost for a 2nd vehicle since it seems that the system cost would be between $400 and $800 (standard vs FU2) plus another $400 or so for third party gauges. In all honesty, you probably will not change programs enough to justify getting the FU2 package. For a 2nd vehicle, a Phoenix with 6 useable programs (no "smoke show" or other no-purpose tunes) will be more than adequate for your needs. I have had a few different chips and once I put a few miles on each tune, I very rarely ever change from my "favorite"....which is usually a tow tune....because it does everything I want it to do. From running empty and getting decent economy all the way to hauling (and I do haul....up to 30K lbs. at times). Also, it seems on the FU2 chip that reprogramming requires removal of the chip form the truck whereas DP or TW or one of them allows the reprogramming to be done with a USB from a laptop and the chip in the truck. Smoke and mirrors. If installed with a cutout in the black plastic PCM cover, the chip can be removed and reinstalled in about 5 seconds. The worst part is the switch cable. If you get an extra, then you don't have to take the original one out of the truck. But I don't see a need for an FU2 package in your case anyway.

Perhaps too many options.

[tennfire]

Thanks!

The answers are consistent with the "nudge" gut that is telling me real gauges and a switchable chip rather than the Gryphon.

[soutthpaw]

I'll add my 2 cents as well. Get the Phoenix. I agree with Cody that the FU chip will be more than what u need. I would look at getting a Deceleration tune for engine braking on long decents etc. then go with a high idle... 1100rpm is standard but Bill can easily set it at anything you want. Mine is at 1200 RPM because my 200A alternator puts out max amperage at 1200 rpm...

here is the cut and paste from another thread that has the suggested tow ratings from Bill
DJ,

It breaks down like this:

* 25hp - Over 20,000 GCWR (all terrain)
* 40hp - 16,000 to 20,000 GCWR (all terrain)
* 65hp - 12,000 to 16,000 GCWR (all terrain), 16,000 to 20,000 GCWR (flat terrain)
* 80hp - 8,000 to 12,000 GCWR (all terrain), 12,000 to 16,000 GCWR (flat terrain)
* 100hp - 8,000 to 12,000 GCWR (flat terrain)
* 120hp - Not Recommended
* 140hp - Not Recommended


Keep in mind that files designated as "Tow" are designed specifically for the needs of towing (shift strategies, pressures, lockup, fuel curves, injection timing) while "Performance" programs are handled quite a bit differently.

Hope that helps.
__________________
Bill Cohron - The Mad Doctor



So pick the ones that fit your towing needs and add a high idle and a decel tune. Try and put the decel tune between the 2 tow tunes you will use most. The Fuel Sipper is basically the 80 (75)HP tow tune with lowered shift points. I am still running the Fuel Sipper with a slightly modified shift schedule though I am tempted to go back to the 80HP tow instead... Not sure I have really seen significant gains in MPG over the 100hp or the 80 I was running before... I just changed out to a better tire setup so want to run it on the new tires a while before I decide...... (need to chat with Cody about this in another thread)

As for gauges I am with you on the Pillar thing. I find them to obstruct my cornering view and be too"in you face" when driving at night so I went with the rear view mirror area overhead pod

the install is a bit more involved than the pillar mount but I like the result... also blocks the sun coming thought that space above the rear view mirror

[Jackpine]

Nice install, soutthpaw!

- Jack