Transmission control

[Ford Guy]

Hey guys

This is my first post. I'm trying to decide if the Gryphon is the programer for me and I have a few questions. I hear a lot of talk about shift firmness.
How is this controlled?

I read in the FAQ section about shift points, delays and pressure. Does this refer to three separate adjustments?

I have an '03 FX4 5.4

Shift points - I assume this refers to when the transmission shifts. I think the shift points are OK

Delays - I think that this may be what I want to adjust but I'm not sure what delays deal with. I want the TC to lock up immediately with no delay after the shift.

Pressure - I want the TC to remain locked with moderately heavy throttle, right now it hops out of luckup as soon as a light throttle is introduced. Does pressure control this?

I want a reasonably firm shift with an immediate torque converter lockup with the TC remaining locked until I apply enough throttle to shift to a lower gear if this is possible.

Will a programer do what I want? Originally I was looking at the Xcal 3 but Jack (jack & Janet) suggested the Gryphon might be better (give me more control). Which unit would be better at controling the transmission?

Ford Guy

[Jackpine]

Hi Ford Guy -

I'm going to try to answer you "inline". You've got a bit of it right.

Originally Posted by Ford Guy

Hey guys

This is my first post. I'm trying to decide if the Gryphon is the programer for me and I have a few questions. I hear a lot of talk about shift firmness.
How is this controlled?

On the Gryphon, Bill controls how shifts feel by adjusting torque reduction, line pressure and "delay". You can further adjust how "firm" the shift feels by making small adjustments to delay (not line pressure). The delay is a time in milliseconds between clutch release and new clutch lockup during a shift. If the delay is set at 450 ms, as an example, an adjustment of +10 on the Gryphon will reduce that delay by 10%, or to about 405 ms.

I read in the FAQ section about shift points, delays and pressure. Does this refer to three separate adjustments?

Yes - but the delay and pressure adjustments effect the "feel", while the shift points control where the shift occurs.

I have an '03 FX4 5.4

Shift points - I assume this refers to when the transmission shifts. I think the shift points are OK

Normal, part throttle shift points are controlled by both speed and throttle opening (engine load). If the load is light, the shift up happens at a lower speed and vice versa. You can actually adjust these slightly on the Gryphon if you want to. Bill can of course make more drastic adjustments when he writes a tune.

Delays - I think that this may be what I want to adjust but I'm not sure what delays deal with. I want the TC to lock up immediately with no delay after the shift.

No, you really don't. That would but terrible stress on the mechanicals in the driveline during a WOT shift. You may want to reduce the delay, and Bill does this as part of a custom tune (the canned tunes do this too). As I said earlier though, you can adjust them yourself even further. I have not touched this adjustment, because I think Bill has it "dialed" in perfectly.

Pressure - I want the TC to remain locked with moderately heavy throttle, right now it hops out of luckup as soon as a light throttle is introduced. Does pressure control this?

No - Pressure effects how quickly the clutches can lock, not how the TC behaves. I agree that Ford designs the TC to unlock too quickly under light load. Bill can adjust this in a custom tune. And, you can make further small adjustments to it yourself. I have done that because like you, I felt that the transmission was downshifting too quickly under light load and the TC was unlocking too quickly. Some day, when I have the money, I'll ask Bill to make some changes to my tunes to include these adjustments.

I want a reasonably firm shift with an immediate torque converter lockup with the TC remaining locked until I apply enough throttle to shift to a lower gear if this is possible.

I don't know if you can get EXACTLY what you are asking for here, or even if you really want that, but, as I've said, these parameters CAN be adjusted. Much of "custom tuning" does exactly that - it eliminates the "slippy", "grandpa" style shifting that Ford thought we all wanted (so we don't spill our coffee). But, I think you actually DO want the TC to unlock BEFORE the transmission downshifts, because that may be all that is necessary if the power demand is "light". You really don't want them happening at the same time.

Will a programer do what I want? Originally I was looking at the Xcal 3 but Jack (jack & Janet) suggested the Gryphon might be better (give me more control). Which unit would be better at controling the transmission?

Bill can answer that, since he sells and programs both units.

Ford Guy

Glad to have you with us!

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

The Gryphon offers similar control of the transmission functions in comparison to the X-Cal, although we have a more finite control over several other functions such as tire size, gear ratio, and other adjustments. Aside from that, the canned tuning would be very similar and custom tuning would be identical, providing we did the custom tuning.

One thing to keep in mind in relation to the Converter/Shift relationship is that while remaining locked on an upshift is not bad, remaining locked on part to full throttle downshifts can be a bit rough on the drivetrain. Ideally, you want the converter to unlock on an aggressive downshift to help absorb some of the driveline "shock" which occurs during the shift.

I hope that makes sense.

[Jackpine]

Once in a while, with the speed control set, and while towing up a hill where the transmission has dropped into 2nd gear, my TC will lock. Then, if the truck happens to upshift, it seems to go directly into 3rd without unlocking the TC. That shift is really "hard", and I don't like it at all. When you feel that much "abrupt" force on things, you know something is receiving a lot of stress.

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

Jack,

Under moderate to hard acceleration, once the converter is locked the PCM tends to leave it locked during up shifts. There are a couple reasons for this.

• If the converter is locked in 2nd, it's usually because you've been in 2nd gear long enough to expire the timer (as in you are pulling a heavy load) and this allows the convert to lock in 2nd
• The converter stays locked because at this point the PCM is going on the assumption you are heavily loaded and under hard acceleration, and unlocking and relocking the converter on upshifts, especially for the 1-2 or 2-3 shifts, would actually stress the converter. It's more of a safety feature to prevent ballooning the converter of smoking the clutches.
• Locked converters run lower TFT than unlocked converters. Under moderate to heavy loads, this is very important.

I understand the shift feels a bit rough, and if that's the case we can change the torque management on the shift to soften it a bit. However, I don't recommend trying to change the converter strategy. It's doing what it should to keep the trans alive.

Take care.

[Jackpine]

Thanks for the explanation, Bill. I'm happy if you're happy, I don't have nearly the knowledge of this transmission that you do. If it ain't broke, I don't want to fix it. (The first time I experienced it, it was a "shock", since then, I've come to expect it and am not so bothered. I only brought it up because of the previous posts.)

We just drove our "Garage Queen" up over Gates Pass (about 2000 ft above the city) to an annual gathering we have on New Years day. It ran beautifully on the 87 Economy/Performance tune you wrote (with my minor tweaks). I paid special attention to the way the TC behaved under moderate load and at low speeds. It would be locked in 4th gear at just above 36 mph and would stay locked under a moderate load uphill at that speed. The tune really feels "right", to me now - the way Ford SHOULD have designed it. The TFT stayed below 140 all the way (about 65 degrees outside, sorry, Lars and Cody).

Sorry if this seems a bit of a hijack, I see it as more of a discussion of shifting philosophies.

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

As you are well aware, shifting is the most debated and argued of all the modifications we do on our vehicles. There will NEVER be a one-size-fits-all shifting strategy and we do the best we can based on the customer's needs and input. Sometimes it take a tweak or two to get the shifting where the customer is happy, but in most cases we can get things well within an acceptable range for the average customer.

[Jackpine]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

As you are well aware, shifting is the most debated and argued of all the modifications we do on our vehicles. There will NEVER be a one-size-fits-all shifting strategy and we do the best we can based on the customer's needs and input. Sometimes it take a tweak or two to get the shifting where the customer is happy, but in most cases we can get things well within an acceptable range for the average customer.

Right! And this is why I keep encouraging people to try to describe "exactly" for you what they are looking for in a tune. Honestly, I don't know how you "guess" what people are looking for as well as you do. "I want an 87 Performance tune" is not the most descriptive request, is it? But, I KNOW that's what you get, much of the time.

- Jack

[Power Hungry]

For the average customer, it's not too big a deal. We try to balance performance and feel and after a dozen years of tuning, I think we have a pretty good handle on what most customers really like. Where it gets trickier is when dealing specifically with enthusiasts who are a bit more savvy and have a better understanding of what they're looking for. In those cases, feedback is the only way to get things dialed in to their liking, otherwise it's like shooting in the dark.