FICM tune for VT365?

[pwerwagn]

I also got some info from KC turbo that the VT has a much smaller turbo than the truck. Sounded like a swap to a stock truck turbo would be a decent upgrade, assuming tuning is available to accommodate the larger turbo? If so, I might also consider a KC stage 1 as well..

Jeff

[Power Hungry]

Originally Posted by pwerwagn

Bill,

I’m also having an issue with the fan clutch on this unit. The original one didn’t work at all, so it’s now replaced with a new one from IH. This new one never shuts off. It has a temp adjustment that changes the preload of the bi-metal spring, which I have messed with and it still runs 100% of the time. My coolant temps stay ~170-180.

Have you messed with the fan clutches in these at all? It’s mechanical.

Jeff

I haven't messed with fan clutches since the '80s.

Everything I build now I run electric fans on as they tend to lend themselves better to thermostatic control. The problem is that on diesel trucks, you'd need several of them to achieve the airflow you'll need to cool the radiator and intercooler. At least two fans for each or maybe even three fans utilizing two on the front at top and bottom pushing and one rear middle pulling. It could be done fairly easily and could also be easily staggered based on temp (1 fan, 2 fans, 3 fans), and would just require quite the power block to feed it. That would give you cooling at idle, low speed, and heavy load conditions, while providing less fan under light loads, cool days, etc.

Anyway, that's just a thought.

Originally Posted by pwerwagn

I also got some info from KC turbo that the VT has a much smaller turbo than the truck. Sounded like a swap to a stock truck turbo would be a decent upgrade, assuming tuning is available to accommodate the larger turbo? If so, I might also consider a KC stage 1 as well..

Jeff

I'm still getting my head around the many configurations that are available with these trucks. I've spent a great deal of time working with the 7.3L trucks and have a good library of calibrations and builds based on the many options available, but still working on the 6.0L stuff.

I'm personally not sure what turbo is used on the VT and how it relates to the 6.0L, so I would defer that to Charlie at KC. In fact, I think I'm going to give him a jingle tomorrow and have a chat about them.

The tuning itself should be pretty straightforward and I don't see an issue with that. Now, I personally prefer using the FICM as a means to increase performance since it directly controls the SOI and PW tables as well as a few other useful items. The ECM is usually used to control ICP, Turbo Control (Desired Boost and VVT Feedforward), Estimated Torque Output (for shifting), and EGR. Combined, these make for really good performance and drivability.

Anyway, I'll get back to you about turbo and tuning and let you know what I find.

Take care.

[pwerwagn]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

I haven't messed with fan clutches since the '80s.

Everything I build now I run electric fans on as they tend to lend themselves better to thermostatic control. The problem is that on diesel trucks, you'd need several of them to achieve the airflow you'll need to cool the radiator and intercooler. At least two fans for each or maybe even three fans utilizing two on the front at top and bottom pushing and one rear middle pulling. It could be done fairly easily and could also be easily staggered based on temp (1 fan, 2 fans, 3 fans), and would just require quite the power block to feed it. That would give you cooling at idle, low speed, and heavy load conditions, while providing less fan under light loads, cool days, etc.

Anyway, that's just a thought.

Ive actually had similar thoughts, using 3 ford taurus fans. The intercooler on this 4200 is not in front of the radiator, its above. I could build 2 shrouds, one for the IC with a fan, and then another for the radiator with 2 fans. With the taurus fan being 2 speed, it would give me many options for airflow.

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

I'm still getting my head around the many configurations that are available with these trucks. I've spent a great deal of time working with the 7.3L trucks and have a good library of calibrations and builds based on the many options available, but still working on the 6.0L stuff.

I'm personally not sure what turbo is used on the VT and how it relates to the 6.0L, so I would defer that to Charlie at KC. In fact, I think I'm going to give him a jingle tomorrow and have a chat about them.

The tuning itself should be pretty straightforward and I don't see an issue with that. Now, I personally prefer using the FICM as a means to increase performance since it directly controls the SOI and PW tables as well as a few other useful items. The ECM is usually used to control ICP, Turbo Control (Desired Boost and VVT Feedforward), Estimated Torque Output (for shifting), and EGR. Combined, these make for really good performance and drivability.

Anyway, I'll get back to you about turbo and tuning and let you know what I find.

Take care.

Awesome! Thank you for the info. So, from the sounds of that, since my MP8 plugs into the ICP, it and the FICM tune might work fine together in the meantime? Is the VT365 ATLAS 40 ficm tune the same tune as the 6.0? Or would you recommend the eco tune for this?

Id love to be able to use a ~40hp ficm tune, and then an ECM tune that maybe adds a bit, and lets me delete the EGR. It would be even nicer if I could do a small turbo upgrade and get more reliable power out of it!

Thanks Bill!

--Jeff

[Power Hungry]

Originally Posted by pwerwagn

Awesome! Thank you for the info. So, from the sounds of that, since my MP8 plugs into the ICP, it and the FICM tune might work fine together in the meantime? Is the VT365 ATLAS 40 ficm tune the same tune as the 6.0? Or would you recommend the eco tune for this?

Id love to be able to use a ~40hp ficm tune, and then an ECM tune that maybe adds a bit, and lets me delete the EGR. It would be even nicer if I could do a small turbo upgrade and get more reliable power out of it!

Jeff,

Being that I am not 100% certain what the MP8 affects in the system, I would NOT recommend trying to combine the MP8 and the FICM tuning. I'd assume that it's modifying the ICP signal as this is what most aftermarket devices do. The Atlas tuning does not respond well to any external influences to the ICP signal values, either by mechanically/electrically altering the signal (ie. resistors, signal modifier boxes, etc.) or by changing the interpreted value in the ECM (ie. spoofing the A/D Converter values in the code). This leads to the undesired effect of artificially raising the Injection Pulsewidth by making the FICM think the ICP is falling. This is generally not a good thing.

There is no reason you couldn't run the Atlas 40, and in fact I've used it on many trucks already without issue. The tuning is very similar to that which is available for the Power Stroke, but just slightly modified for compatibility with the Navistar control systems.

In regards to the fans... depending on the diameter, the setup I was considering was actually six fans. 3 fans for the split radiator and 3 fans for the intercooler. Small diameter, low profile, high RPM fans would be great as the current draw is low and you could stage them using electric thermostats. Anyway, that was my thoughts.

I hope this is helpful.

[pwerwagn]

Originally Posted by Power Hungry

Jeff,

Being that I am not 100% certain what the MP8 affects in the system, I would NOT recommend trying to combine the MP8 and the FICM tuning. I'd assume that it's modifying the ICP signal as this is what most aftermarket devices do. The Atlas tuning does not respond well to any external influences to the ICP signal values, either by mechanically/electrically altering the signal (ie. resistors, signal modifier boxes, etc.) or by changing the interpreted value in the ECM (ie. spoofing the A/D Converter values in the code). This leads to the undesired effect of artificially raising the Injection Pulsewidth by making the FICM think the ICP is falling. This is generally not a good thing.

There is no reason you couldn't run the Atlas 40, and in fact I've used it on many trucks already without issue. The tuning is very similar to that which is available for the Power Stroke, but just slightly modified for compatibility with the Navistar control systems.

In regards to the fans... depending on the diameter, the setup I was considering was actually six fans. 3 fans for the split radiator and 3 fans for the intercooler. Small diameter, low profile, high RPM fans would be great as the current draw is low and you could stage them using electric thermostats. Anyway, that was my thoughts.

I hope this is helpful.

Awesome! Thanks for the info. I’ll do some measuring and knock something out in solidworks for different fan ideas.

This MP8 is supposed to add 100hp. I can’t find much info about the MP8 and real dyno results. Is 100hp feasible by just manipulating the ICP? I assume the FICM tune will add a lot of drive ability (and MUCH needed low end spool) that would offset the potential power loss from not running the Mp8? Or do you have a safe tow tune/FICM tune combo that could improve over this ICP fooling box (when talking peak hp, I’m sure a real ecm/FICM tune will be better overall)?

Jeff

By the way, if you’d prefer to talk on the phone I’m down for that too. I’ve just had such a hard time finding any info about the VT that I thought having the info out here might be beneficial. There are quite a few guys with these motorhomes looking for tunes besides me (and they all run the MP8 it seems).

[pwerwagn]

Hey Bill!

Another question. Is there a way to have a "tuner" for the FICM on these units with the J1708/J1939 plug? Or am I stuck sending the FICM/ECM in for a tune?

--Jeff

[Power Hungry]

Originally Posted by pwerwagn

Hey Bill!

Another question. Is there a way to have a "tuner" for the FICM on these units with the J1708/J1939 plug? Or am I stuck sending the FICM/ECM in for a tune?

--Jeff

You're in luck. The Orion system will reflash the FICM as well as the ECM.

One of our current BETA testers has the VT365 setup and we're working on files for him as we speak.